RE: [Geopriv] rethinking data:

From: Dawson, Martin ^lt;>
Date: Fri Aug 25 2006 - 20:50:16 EDT

Tsk. Once more, then, into the breach...

I vote in FAVOR of location reference. Protocols definition is an
engineering activity - protocol features are provided for practical
purposes and should not be added or excluded as a projection of

Practical benefits of location reference:
* The literal location does not need to be transmitted in band. Where
the eventual recipient and de-referencer is the only party the "owner"
of location cares to provide disclosure to, then the reference mechanism
achieves this. Particularly useful where the owner is not in a peer
signaling relationship with the de-referencer. E.g. a VoIP emergency
caller and a VPC.

* The location reference form is immutable and generic (i.e. a URI - and
my view that a generic URI is perfectly adequate has also been
expressed). So, no matter what eventual modifications, extensions, or
additions are made to the manner in which the PIDF-LO is formed, the
conveyance path need not be concerned about backward incompatibility.
Adaption is limited to the actual end-user of the location information.

* Where the location owner is not in a peer signaling relationship with
the location user (e.g. a VoIP emergency caller and a VPC), the location
reference can be permitted to be valid for a period of time allowing,
for example, the retrieval of location updates during the period of that

* As a counter-response - no the location reference is not less secure.
Losing privacy of location information means losing the information at
the device or in transit. Loss of a literal location object means the
location is lost in one step. Loss of a reference still requires the
unauthorized party to successfully breach the authentication and
authorization barrier at the referenced server. Location by reference
provides superior privacy.

* The DSIG solution for DHCP/LLDP-MED contributed by Rosen et al
recently does not address the temporal component. Brian should state the
signature also needs to provide an expiry-time component. Else the
signed LO can be replayed at any time in the future from anywhere by the
original recipient. Expiry time semantics are somewhat awkward. Since
de-referencing is an instantaneous process, the location server can
apply temporal rules directly without the need to encode them in the
location object itself.

I think that's a more than compelling list of benefits of using location
reference. Arguments suggesting it allows network operators to charge
for location are not relevant - nor appropriate to the engineering
process. The market will decide that - and clearly the option of
providing literal location is not obviated by the presence of the option
to use location by reference.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Newton []
> Sent: Saturday, 26 August 2006 10:22 AM
> To: James M. Polk
> Subject: Re: [Geopriv] rethinking data:
> On Aug 25, 2006, at 6:01 PM, James M. Polk wrote:
> > At 04:08 PM 8/25/2006 -0400, Andrew Newton wrote:
> >> Having reviewed the archives
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > Which archives did you review?
> >
> > There were several voices opposed to it, but maybe not on the
> > Geopriv list. After all, this is a SIP doc...
> I'm well aware of that fact, James. However, there was actually very
> little significant discussion on it besides the exchange between
> Henning and myself (there was a post on the SIP list that never made
> it to GEOPRIV that was in favor). Keep in mind, this was mixed into
> a long and winding thread.
> So, here we have another thread. And it would be easy for those
> opposed (or for) to stand up and be counted (and offer an
> explanation, too... after all, we don't vote in the IETF).
> -andy
> _______________________________________________
> Geopriv mailing list

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Received on Fri, 25 Aug 2006 19:50:16 -0500

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